Consideration of reports, comments and information submitted by States parties under article 9 of the Convention (continued)
Fifth periodic report of Viet Nam
CONSIDERATION OF REPORTS, COMMENTS AND INFORMATION SUBMITTED BY STATES PARTIES UNDER ARTICLE 9 OF THE CONVENTION (agenda item 4) (continued)
Fifth periodic report of Viet Nam (CERD/C/204/Add.1)
1. The CHAIRMAN said that the delegation of Viet Nam included Mr. Nguyen Luong, Ambassador and permanent representative of the Socialist Republic of Viet Nam to the United Nations Office and other international organizations at Geneva, head of the delegation; Mr. Nguyen Van Son, First Secretary of the Permanent Mission of Viet Nam at Geneva; and Mrs. Ha Thi Ngoc Ha, Third Secretary of the Permanent Mission of Viet Nam at Geneva.
2. At the invitation of the Chairman, Mr. Nguyen Luong, Mr. Nguyen Van Son and Mrs. Ha Thi Ngoc Ha (Viet Nam) took their seats at the Committee table.
3. Mr. Nguyen Luong (Viet Nam) first of all thanked the Committee for deciding at its previous session to postpone consideration of the periodic report of Viet Nam, thus allowing the Vietnamese authorities time to draft a report in accordance with the Committee's guidelines and endeavouring as far as possible, to reflect the new realities of the country. He also stressed that Viet Nam had made considerable efforts to fulfil its commitments as a State party to various human rights instruments by submitting during the current year reports on implementation of the Convention on the Rights of the Child and of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights in addition to the present report. He acknowledged, however, that the fifth periodic report of Viet Nam to the Committee had omissions and shortcomings as a result of the limited capabilities of a developing country. The statistical data were often incomplete or estimates, which made their analysis difficult. Moreover, the divergence between legislation and practice was often due to objective factors, and the impact of external elements was difficult to ascertain and make acceptable. He hoped, however, that the Committee would acknowledge the efforts Viet Nam had made.
4. During the Vietnamese people's struggle for independence and development, national unity and cohesion between nationalities or ethnic groups had been a question of survival which had had a fundamental impact on the Vietnamese, and which was reflected, inter alia in every-day language. For example, "compatriot" was a mistranslation of "Dong Bao" which meant "from the same pouch". The word came from the legend of Queen Au Co, who had given birth to a pouch containing 100 eggs from which emerged 100 boys, 50 of whom had allegedly followed the King to the kingdom of water, whilst the other 50 had followed the Queen to the mountains. That sense of a common origin had influenced language. The terms "minorities" or "minority" were avoided and expressions such as "sister nationalities" and "town people and mountain people" were used. Obviously, in such a context, the word "race" was not used to refer to relations between Vietnamese ethnic groups. Article 5 of the 1992 Constitution defined Viet Nam's policy on nationalities in the same spirit of unity and national cohesion.
5. Moving on to more specific data, he explained that ethnic communities represented 12.65 per cent of the population in 1979 and 13.2 per cent in 1989. In some regions inhabited by ethnic communities, the rate of demographic growth was higher than the national average of 2.13 per cent. For example, the rate stood at 3.65 per cent in Son La province, 3.43 per cent in Lai Chau and 3.06 per cent in Hoang Lien Son. In addition to the Kinh ethnic group, which made up 88 per cent of the population, there were 12 ethnic groups with between 100,000 and a million people, 21 with between 10,000 and 100,000, 15 with between 1,000 and 10,000 and 5 with less than 1,000. Seven ethnic groups had a written language and 10 others had succeeded, with assistance from the State, in romanizing their spoken languages. In terms of representation in the National Assembly the percentage of deputies from ethnic communities had risen from 14 per cent in the eighth legislature to 17 per cent in the present ninth.
6. He stressed that the Government of Viet Nam was aware that the elimination of racial discrimination meant guaranteeing ethnic groups and acceptable level of socio-economic development and giving them preferential treatment. The Government had therefore adopted a blueprint for the socio-economic development of the mountainous regions where the ethnic communities lived. It comprised ten sectoral projects: a sedentarization process, the protection of upstream forests, reafforestation, management by the local population of land suitable for cultivation and forests; solving the food problem through developing cattle breeding, the planting of fruit trees and the development of industrial species and of the agri-food industry; developing human resources; restructuring production and combating narcotic drug addition; solving the problem of water resources; the movement of goods and factors of production and import-export activities; transport and telecommunications; solving the problem of limited energy resources; developing information and cultural and artistic activities; and implementing a national health programme. The Government of Viet Nam also had plans to strengthen international cooperation, inter alia, with regard to the fight against drugs, to providing assistance to ethnic minorities, economic and social development and mobilizing and channelling assistance from non-governmental organizations. It was also trying to support the economic and social development of ethnic minorities but was running into a number of problems, including a shortage of arable land, environmental degradation, a population growth outstripping that of agricultural production and a lack of finance to produce and build infrastructures and to fight drugs.
7. The results of the modernization process under way had already been encouraging, but the development of a market economy was affecting preferential treatment for ethnic minorities. Moreover, the State needed finance to improve education and the health system. Polarization of the rich and the poor could undermine ethnic minorities' inherent community spirit. The Government was therefore trying to contain the problem, which would prejudice the welfare of the minorities.
8. In conclusion, he reiterated that the Government and people of Viet Nam were implementing the provisions of the Convention in order to eliminate all forms of racial discrimination in the world, including xenophobia, of which Vietnamese nationals had already been victims. Viet Nam was open to observations and suggestions on implementation of the Convention.
9. Mr. de GOUTTES (Country Rapporteur) recalled that the representative of the Socialist Republic of Viet Nam, who had come to the forty-first session of the Committee without a report, had undertaken to submit a report in 1993. That undertaking had been honoured. The fifth periodic report of Viet Nam (CERD/C/203/Add.1) combined four reports which had been due in 1985, 1987, 1989 and 1991 respectively. He therefore welcomed the fact that Viet Nam had resumed its obligation to submit periodic reports to the Committee. That was commendable, given the difficulties Viet Nam was facing while rebuilding and transforming the country after the years of war. It was also a significant gesture coming from a country which had often been criticized for giving priority to opening up and modernizing the economy while remaining closed, and even restrictive, with regard to human rights and freedoms. By re-establishing dialogue with the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, the Human Rights Committee and the Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, the Government of Viet Nam had shown its desire to be more open on questions of human rights. It was to be hoped that Viet Nam would go even further and agree to make the declaration referred to in article 14 of the Convention.
10. Moving on to consideration of the content of the periodic report, he said that although the Government of Viet Nam had followed the Committee's guidelines by submitting a two-part report, consisting of a general part on social, economic, political and institutional aspects of the country and a second, analytical part on the actual implementation of each article of the Convention, the first part was only five lines long. Apparently that was partly linked to the layout of the report, because paragraphs 2 to 11, on the ethnic composition of the population, could have been included in the general section and not in the section on article 1 of the Convention. However, with regard to the general remarks, the Government of Viet Nam should provide recent information on socio-economic indicators such as density, per capita GNP, the rate of growth of the GDP, inflation and literacy rates. It would also be of interest to hear about the socio-psychological consequences of the modernization policy (Doi Moi) on the population. Mention had been made of the rise in corruption, increasing racketeering among managerial staff, the depoliticization of individuals concerned only with improving their material situation, a deteriorating situation with regard to health and education and, as had been pointed out by the Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, a worrying increase in the number of street children who became involved in unlawful activities (prostitution, drug addiction, drug dealing). He requested information on those areas. It would also be useful if the Government of Viet Nam were to give general information on the development of the regime and the changes taking place.
11. The Socialist Republic of Viet Nam gave the impression of being a country of extremes which was in the throes of economic modernization while at the same time ensuring the continuance of a strong State apparatus and the pre-eminence of the Party. Admittedly, the Constitution which had been adopted on 14 April 1992 provided for economic liberalization, but it also favoured the establishment of a State governed by the rule of law by guaranteeing, for example, freedom of speech, of the press, of information, of assembly, of association and of religion within the framework of the law and not on the basis of the interests of socialism and of the people as previously. The new Constitution also contained provisions on the right of ownership and inheritance, freedom to set up an enterprise and social rights. Most of its provisions on fundamental public freedoms seemed to subordinate the exercise of those rights to implementing legislation, some of which was apparently not yet in force. Clarification on that matter would be of interest. In 1990, members of the Human Rights Committee had expressed their concern at the excessively systematic emphasis laid on the sovereign right of the State over the individual, who was required to be at the service of society, and had noted that, although the war had undoubtedly been responsible for many of the difficulties Viet Nam was experiencing in implementing the provisions of the Covenant, it should not be used to justify a failure to respect certain fundamental rights or place excessive restrictions on rights and freedoms. The representative of Viet Nam should provide reassurance in that regard together with additional information on the new Constitution on the effect of the new general elections and on the process of economic liberalization and democratization process. The Government of Viet Nam should also indicate how the Convention had been incorporated into Vietnamese domestic law, if treaties took precedence over domestic legislation and whether they could be directly invoked before the courts.
12. Turning on to the second part of the report of Viet Nam (CERD/C/204/Add.1), he noted that the Government of Viet Nam had tried to respect the Committee's directives. That part of the report contained very interesting information on the composition of the population and the 54 ethnic groups living in Viet Nam, new laws that had been adopted in recent years (Criminal Code, Acts on citizenship, trade unions and housing), the new 1992 Constitution, and socio-economic development plans for ethnic minorities, and in particular the populations of the mountain regions. It would be of interest to hear whether a preliminary assessment of the implementation of those plans could be made and the initial results, as the report had mentioned serious obstacles which had to be removed. The existence of a Council of Nationalities elected by the National Assembly and responsible for supervising the implementation of policies and programmes for minorities was of interest. He would like more information on the composition of the Council and its practical influence.
13. The second part of the report also contained information which had not been adequately developed or merely gave a list of legislative instruments. He therefore requested clarification on some points. Firstly, with regard to the implementation of article 2 of the Convention, the Government of Viet Nam should respond to the concern expressed by the members of the Human Rights Committee in 1990 regarding potential discrimination and tension between North and South Vietnamese, and should, in particular, specify whether the inhabitants of the south who had been involved in the armed struggle enjoyed the same rights as those who had served in the armed forces in the north. Furthermore, according to some recent information, the economic changes under way seemed to aggravate differences in income and the contrast between north and south.
14. The Government of Viet Nam should also mention what had been done to combat traditional prejudices against minority ethnic groups, who were often seen as second-rate "mountain people" who, in addition, had collaborated with the French and then with the Americans. They were, apparently, particularly disadvantaged in terms of material wealth.
15. Similarly, certain worrying pieces of information should be confirmed or refuted. They concerned the alleged displacement and deportation to the Mekong delta of certain population groups in the overcrowded regions in the north and centre of the country.
16. He was also concerned at the fate of mixed-race American-Vietnamese and French-Vietnamese children, who, if reports were to be believed, were all too often seen as social outcasts and abandoned by both their parents. Did the Government of Viet Nam, which had ratified the Convention on the Rights of the Child, intend to take measures to resolve the situation?
17. With regard to the implementation of articles 4 and 6 of the Convention, he noted that article 81 of the Criminal Code, referred to in paragraph 27 of the report, did not make all acts of racial or ethnic discrimination a criminal offence. Although paragraphs 72 to 74 of the report provided general information on victims' complaints and the recourse open to them before the courts, there were no examples of sentences for, court statistics relating to, individual racist acts. That oversight should be remedied in the subsequent report, since legal proceedings and sentences provided a benchmark for measuring a country's willingness to implement the Convention.
18. With regard to article 5 of the Convention, the lengthy statement on the subject in the report consisted mainly of a list of legal instruments without any indication of how they were applied in practice; this left many questions unanswered.
19. In respect of article 5, he therefore asked, first of all, whether the "People's Courts" referred to in paragraphs 30 and 31 of the report applied the principle of citizens' equality before the law and if there were any guarantees protecting the independence of the judiciary. He then asked whether, contrary to what was stated in paragraph 28 of the report, some former soldiers thus were not still in detention and whether it were true that people released from the detention camps were no longer allowed to leave their places of residence, apply for State employment, enrol their children in university, see them enter the public service or enjoy the right to travel abroad. Thirdly, given the policy of promoting and ensuring the increased participation of ethnic minorities which was affirmed by the Government of Viet Nam in paragraph 40 of the report, he requested more comprehensive information than that given in paragraph 37 onwards on the percentage of persons from the mountain population working, for example, in the public service, including the police, the judiciary, the army and education. The fourth question related to the instruments and directives which had been adopted in 1988, allowing citizens to enjoy the right to freedom of movement and to leave and return to the country; those instruments still restricted departure from the country, which was authorized only for a limited time and for specific reasons. According to information received by the Human Rights Committee in 1990, it seemed that residence cards or permits contained a range of details on the private and civil life of each citizen and his or her family, including ethnic group; that explained why many mountain people were having difficulty in finding employment.
20. One other category of citizens was a cause for concern - refugees, in particular the boat people who were being repatriated from first asylum countries in conditions which could not with certainty be described, as the representative of Viet Nam had declared before the Human Rights Committee in 1990, as guaranteeing the security and dignity of the person and which did not involve repressive or discriminatory measures. It seemed that the case of the many Vietnamese workers who had been sent to the former USSR and Eastern Europe to work, which had already been mentioned at the preceding session, had not been satisfactorily resolved either.
21. The fifth point raised by the speaker, still with regard to the implementation of article 5 of the Convention, related to the right to freedom of religion, conscience and expression, which, according to paragraphs 49 and 50 of the report, were guaranteed under the Constitution. Information from various sources, and in particular from Amnesty International, referred to surveillance of and restrictions on the freedom of the hierarchical authorities of various religions on religious seminaries and institutes. Prisoners of conscience apparently included many bonzes and priests. According to very recent information, it seemed that several weeks after similar incidents in Hué, violent clashes had taken place in a southern province between police forces and members of the Unified Buddhist Church of Viet Nam, which had joined the opposition to the regime in 1992. The Ambassador of Viet Nam should confirm or refute the information.
22. With regard to the right to work, housing and other social rights, he asked about a form of discrimination consisting on non-inclusion of individuals in official registers or their removal therefrom, thus depriving them of the right to housing, work and medical care and to enrol their children in an educational establishment.
23. Finally, with regard to the implementation of article 7 of the Convention, he requested more information on how the principles and objectives of the Convention were disseminated by the media, as mentioned in paragraph 79 of the report.
24. It would be useful for the Committee to know whether the Government of Viet Nam authorized and encouraged NGOs to operate on its territory to protect human rights and if it had decided to continue the policy it had adopted by receiving representatives of Amnesty International, by cooperating with the ICRC or making contact with Buddhist and Catholic authorities, initiatives which were all important pointers.
25. In conclusion, he welcomed the renewed dialogue between the Committee and the Government of Viet Nam and repeated the offer of technical assistance which had been made to the Government to help draft its next report.
26. Mr. ABOUL-NASR noted that according to paragraph 10 of the fifth periodic report, ethnic minorities made "decisions on their own destinies". He was concerned that a situation similar to apartheid could arise. The reason why apartheid had been condemned was because it entailed separation. Minorities should not take decisions only on their own destinies; they should be involved in decisions affecting the entire country. Admittedly, the report went on to mention equality of treatment of all citizens; but paragraph 10 required clarification.
27. With regard to paragraph 11 of the report, he noted that the policy in Viet Nam was aimed at "providing conditions for all ethnic communities to develop comprehensively, at eliminating gradually the discrepancies in the levels of economic and cultural development ...". By their reference to the gradual elimination of discrepancies in levels of development, the authorities were admitting that inequalities existed. He asked for further details of the problems Viet Nam still had to solve.
28. More generally, he noted that although the report mentioned civil and political rights, it focused more on social, economic and cultural rights. He asked what measures had been adopted in the area of civil and political rights to allow all minorities to participate in the construction of the country. He was thinking specifically of the ethnic groups living in the mountains who had been accused of collaborating with former enemies. Admittedly it was difficult to call for forgiveness - one had only to see how Europe kept alive the memory of what had happened much earlier - but the slate had to be wiped clean.
29. He found it extremely difficult to see the reason for exit visas, even though such visas also existed outside Viet Nam. He wondered why anyone with a passport would also need a visa of that nature and recalled that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights enshrined the right to leave any country, including one's own, and to return to the latter. He believed that without such regulations the problem of the boat people would disappear. In that regard, he asked whether the sombre picture painted by those refugees in the Press, possibly to obtain political asylum more easily, showed the true situation and whether the many Vietnamese who wanted to leave their country did so for economic or for political reasons.
30. Paragraph 47 of Viet Nam's report (CERD/C/204/Add.1) dealt with the right of ownership and inheritance. It was also stated that citizens had the right to "lawful" income and that the State protected the right to "lawful" ownership and inheritance. The term "lawful" implied that that right was subject to restrictions. The Committee should be informed whether there was a maximum amount a citizen could earn, possess and bequeath.
31. He noted that the report did not mention minorities from countries to the north or west of Viet Nam and asked what the situation was in that regard.
32. A more general question related to Viet Nam's policy towards Cambodia. It was common knowledge that Viet Nam had supported a group which had fought against Pol Pot and which in so doing had committed human rights violations which had been publicly condemned. He hoped that Viet Nam had ended that support, to avoid increasing the difficulties for a neighbouring country through deliveries of arms and economic support which would not be in Viet Nam's interest either.
33. Mr. van BOVEN said that, according to information he had received, it seemed that there were communities in Viet Nam of Chinese origin suffering discrimination, particularly in the area of education. He asked for clarification in that regard and on the fate of persons who had been involved in the activities of the army of the former South Viet Nam, including the Nung. He would like to know whether there were any discriminatory policies or practices affecting them.
34. Like Mr. de Gouttes, he was concerned about the fate of children of Vietnamese mothers and foreign fathers. He asked if they were victims of their origins and, if so, if it were not necessary to take measures to resolve the situation.
35. Mr. Aboul-Nasr had rightly mentioned elements in paragraphs 10 and 11 of the report which could give cause for concern, but it was made clear, later in the document, that the Government of Viet Nam was trying to bridge the gap between the mountain populations and the others, in particular through the "master plan for mountainous region development" mentioned in paragraph 21. Those measures, although special, were none the less in keeping with the spirit of the Convention, particularly article 1, paragraph 4 and article 2, paragraph 2. Viet Nam's efforts to help those populations should be noted.
36. As Mr. de Gouttes had quite rightly emphasized, the Committee had a fair amount of information on relevant legal provisions but not enough on practice.
37. With regard to Viet Nam's policy on the re-education of refugees, he asked why that issue, which was general in character, was discussed in the context of article 4 of the Convention. Contrary to what was stated in paragraph 28, he had reason to believe that people who had undergone re-education experienced difficulties and were victims of discrimination, inter alia, in the areas of education, housing and employment. What did the delegation of Viet Nam think about that subject? Furthermore, what was the situation with regard to the "favourable resettlement conditions" for Vietnamese who voluntarily returned to their country (para.29)? He deplored the xenophobia which was targeted against the Vietnamese community, including in Europe.
38. With regard to the right to vote, to stand for election and to participate in State management (para. 37) he reiterated the question raised by Mr. de Gouttes on the participation of different ethnic groups in public affairs. Paragraph 42 implied that seats on representative bodies were reserved for representatives of minority groups. How were the candidates for such seats selected?
39. There were only two lines on freedom of expression, namely "article 69 of the Constitution provides that the citizen has the right to freedom of expression, of the Press, and to information" (para. 48). Did that mean that citizens were free to publicize opinions which differed from those of the Government?
40. Moving on to the right to form and join trade unions, he noted that "citizens have the right to assemble, form associations and hold demonstrations in accordance with the provisions of law" (para. 60). Did citizens also enjoy the right to set up free and independent trade unions in accordance with ILO Conventions Nos. 87 and 90 and United Nations standards?
41. With regard to a more general question, recalling that the Committee had adopted a recommendation on training for law-enforcement personnel, he asked whether international standards on human rights and the elimination of racism and racial discrimination were taught. Similarly, the Committee had adopted a general recommendation on national institutions responsible for promoting the Convention's objectives. He noted that Viet Nam had a Council of Nationalities (para. 22) and a Committee for Mountainous Region and Ethnic Minority Affairs (para. 24). Could those bodies be compared to the national committees the establishment of which the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination was recommending?
42. He hoped that the Government of Viet Nam would consider making the declaration under article 14 of the Convention. Furthermore, Viet Nam, whose political situation had changed since it had ratified the Convention, should withdraw the reservation and the declaration it had made at that time.
43. With regard to article 7 of the Convention, he noted that "the State places great importance on promoting the work of information media, the press, radio, television, cinema and other means of mass communication", but that "the State at the same time strictly prohibits all activities in the fields of culture and information that are detrimental to national interests and destructive of the personality, morals, and the way of life of the Vietnamese" (para. 76). How was that prohibition applied? In particular, was there a body censoring the Press?
44. Finally he noted with pleasure that Viet Nam had attempted to disseminate throughout the country the texts of several international human rights instruments, including the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination. In which languages were the instruments distributed? If necessary, the Government of Viet Nam could avail itself of the advisory services of the United Nations Centre for Human Rights.
45. Mr. DIACONU, noting that minorities were fairly well represented in the Vietnamese Parliament, said that verification that candidates were indeed selected by their respective groups was needed. He also noted with interest that Viet Nam was implementing development projects in regions inhabited by economically disadvantaged minority groups. Furthermore, the national bodies set up by Viet Nam to deal with the situation of minorities seemed to be in line with the recommendation on the subject adopted by the Committee in 1992.
46. With regard to minorities' culture and languages, he asked for specific information on books and magazines published in the various groups' mother tongues, on the number of schools providing education in those languages and on the numbers of pupils and students belonging to minority groups.
47. Finally, he asked whether there was discrimination between the various population groups on grounds of nationality, race or ethnic origin with regard to the right to leave the country, access to property, the right of inheritance and freedom of expression.
48. Mr. RECHETOV congratulated the Government of Viet Nam on submitting its fifth periodic report in good time and in accordance with the Committee's directives. That was not just a nicety or a minor consideration, because punctuality and compliance with the standards went hand in hand with respect for the provisions of the Convention. He deplored the fact that the Committee had begun to adopt a liberal attitude towards the obligation to submit reports. The question rose as to why Sweden, for which he had been appointed Country Rapporteur, had escaped that obligation. Similarly, he believed that many of the questions which had been raised by some experts were not within the remit of the Committee and were more within the competence of other bodies.
49. He underlined several omissions in the report submitted by Viet Nam with regard to languages used in education, preserving minorities' cultures, and information bodies. Were there television channels in languages other than those of the administration? Was it possible to use those languages in courts of law?
50. He highlighted three categories of Vietnamese living abroad: persons who had married foreigners (Vietnamese women were apparently much-sought-after wives); those who had left Viet Nam, possibly breaking certain rules in the process, to seek refuge elsewhere; and finally, a group of Vietnamese on the territory of the former USSR under intergovernmental agreements. The situations of the latter group was becoming worse, as it was the target of attacks, and was also a contributory factor in the increase of crime in Russia. Could the representative of Viet Nam shed light on that issue and provide information on his country's policy on that population group?
51. Mr. SHAHI welcomed the fact that the fifth periodic report of Viet Nam provided information on the demographic composition of the country and gave a break-down of the population according to ethnic group. Apparently the Chinese minority, which was by far the largest, was a particular target of discrimination in the spheres of education and employment.
52. Noting that "nearly 2 million ethnic minority people either still lead a nomadic life or have resettled in some localities where their living and production conditions remain unstable" (para. 20), he believed the situation of those population groups called for vigorous action. Similarly, what steps were being taken by the Government of Viet Nam to allow ethnic minorities to take part in the "all-round development" mentioned in paragraph 16 of the report?
53. Paragraph 15 stated that Viet Nam was party to several international human rights instruments. He congratulated the Government of Viet Nam. Might not the Government also consider accession to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights?
54. With regard to the socio-economic development plans for ethnic minorities, he noted that the Vietnamese State applied preferential policies and measures vis-à-vis the mountainous regions and ethnic minorities (para. 17). What preferential treatment did those communities receive in terms of financing, credit or wages?
55. Paragraph 42 of the report stated that in the Eighth Legislature of the National Assembly, 72 out of 490 deputies were representatives of minority groups. The subsequent periodic report should provide information on the representation of those minorities in the Government, administration, army and police force.
56. With regard to freedom of expression, of the Press and of information, was exercise of those rights limited by considerations based on morality or public order? In respect of the right to freedom of belief and religion, he asked what laws governed the practice of religion, whether there were any restrictions thereon and, if so, what were the criteria applied.
57. Mr. SONG said that he welcomed the renewal of the dialogue between Viet Nam and the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination. He would like clarification on three points. The first related to the major developments under way at present in Viet Nam on the basis of the new Constitution and the new legislative reforms. The report mentioned those instruments on several occasions but gave no specific explanation of their application. It might be of use if the main articles of the new Constitution were to be appended to the report to give the Committee a better understanding of Vietnamese legislation.
58. The second point related to the problem of refugees. Admittedly, the report stated that there was no discrimination in Viet Nam, but it did not give details of the situation of those refugees. Did they belong to minorities and did they face difficulties when repatriated, in terms of employment, for example? The third point related to Chinese nationals in Viet Nam. It would be of interest to hear what their social status was, if there were differences between those from the north and those from the south and if Chinese nationals received the same treatment with regard to education and employment. What became of the possessions some Chinese had inherited?
59. Mr. BANTON noted that Mr. de Gouttes had practically exhausted every question on the situation in Viet Nam and pointed out that an excellent book had been published in English, entitled "Four days in My Lai", which poignantly recalled one of the incidents in which the human rights of ordinary Vietnamese people had been violated. Although he supported the remarks made by preceding speakers, like Mr. Rechetov he queried the relevance of some questions. Which article, for example, allowed questions on Viet Nam's policy on certain groups in Cambodia? At any rate, article 5 could always serve as a basis on which to confirm or disprove the existence of discrimination in the application of human rights.
60. The report mentioned Viet Nam's policy under article 7 of the Convention but gave no details of "immediate and effective measures" which, as everyone
was aware, required vast resources. In that regard, he quoted the World Development Report, 1992, which stated that there were 291 soldiers for every 100 teachers in Viet Nam; that seemed a very high figure. He said that he hoped the ratio would decline in the future and thus make available more resources, which were necessary to implement effective measures under article 7 of the Convention. Moreover, Viet Nam should, as Mr. de Gouttes had suggested, provide a core document containing information on the country's socio-economic indicators.
61. Mr. FERRERO COSTA congratulated Viet Nam, which, despite its difficult history, was trying to become part of the international system once again and respect human rights. However, he would welcome more detailed information on several matters. Firstly, clarification would be useful, inter alia, on the country's legal structure from the point of view of the executive, legislature and judiciary, and on the 1992 Constitution. The Committee would like to hear how the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination fitted into Viet Nam's domestic legislation. It would also welcome socio-economic indicators, which could be included in a core document for the various committees responsible for monitoring respect for human rights. He said that he was concerned by the situation of minority groups and would like to know if there was discrimination between the populations of the north and the south with regard to article 5 of the Convention.
62. Secondly, he noted that many of the report's paragraphs merely consisted of general policy statements and did not give information on the concrete measures taken. This was true, for example, of paragraph 11, on the policy against all forms of racial discrimination; paragraph 17, on the treatment of people living in mountainous regions and ethnic minorities; and paragraph 21, on the programme of socio-economic development for the mountainous areas in the north and so on.
63. Thirdly, he requested more specific information on the composition and functioning of the Council of Nationalities (para. 22) and the Committee for Mountainous Region and Ethnic Minority Affairs (para. 24).
64. Fourthly, the concept of re-education was not clearly explained in the report. Did it refer to ethnic populations or refugees? (Paras. 28 and 29 of the report.) Furthermore, the conditions for the repatriation of refugees were not specified. Those points needed clarification.
65. Fifthly, he requested further information on the People's Courts, their composition and public access to them. Finally, he said that he would like more information on Viet Nam's education policy, referred to in paragraph 75 of the report. He hoped that the replies to his questions would help to give a more comprehensive view of the situation in Viet Nam.
66. Mr. WOLFRUM confirmed that the written report and oral presentation of Viet Nam were full of information and had permitted constructive dialogue. In addition, Mr. de GOUTTES, Country Rapporteur, had given an exhaustive overview of the situation in Viet Nam. However, he would like further information on the situation of people who had left Viet Nam illegally and who were currently living in Europe or the United States of America and wished to return to their country. According to the report, Viet Nam was ready to accept expatriate Vietnamese who had left the country and provide favourable treatment for them. However, the provisions of two agreements, the first between Viet Nam and the United Kingdom and the second between Viet Nam and Germany, stipulated that such people could be prosecuted on their return home. Those provisions contradicted what had been stated by the representative of Viet Nam. He would therefore like an explanation on that point.
67. Commenting on the objections raised by Mr. Rechetov and Mr. Banton that it was not always appropriate to ask questions about human rights violations which did not take place in Viet Nam, he agreed in principle but nevertheless recalled that the Committee had asked Israel and Iraq about implementation of the Convention in occupied territories. When a State exercised the rights over a territory it was occupying, it was obliged to implement the Convention even in those territories. In conclusion, he deplored the acts of violence against foreigners, including Vietnamese, in Europe and in Germany in particular.
68. Mr. ABOUL-NASR thanked Mr. RECHETOV and Mr. BANTON for raising such an important question. Double standards should not be applied when a country directly or indirectly supported human rights violations, and relevant questions should be put to all countries, without discrimination, on the implementation of article 5 of the Convention. He advocated returning to the position that had been adopted by the Committee at the beginning of its work.
69. Mr. DIACONU said that he believed that the issue should be debated in greater detail within the Committee, but proposed that for the moment consideration of the report of Viet Nam should be continued.
70. The CHAIRMAN gave the floor to the representative of Viet Nam so that he could reply to the Committee's questions.
71. Mr. NGUYEN LUONG (Viet Nam) replied first of all to the question on refugees. That was a problem he was well acquainted with because he had been directly involved, in Geneva, with the Comprehensive Plan of Action for Indo-Chinese Refugees (CPA). Two conclusions drawn at a recent information meeting on the CPA held in Ho Chi Minh City should be mentioned. There were already some 40,000 people who had been voluntarily repatriated from South East Asia and Hong Kong; and, before long the number of refugees returning from South East Asia would exceed that from Hong Kong. Under the CPA, there were three possible solutions: relocating them in a third country, integrating them where they were (which was not a desirable solution) and repatriating non-refugees, namely those who had been refused refugee status. In Viet Nam, a solution for that latter category was emerging.
72. During discussions with the United Kingdom and Hong Kong it had been agreed that the persons repatriated would not be persecuted. They could be tried for any civil crimes (theft, murder ...) committed before their departure, but not for the illegal departure as such.
73. The problem of refugees, including boat people, which had been mentioned by members of the Committee was a reality but one which had been over-politicized. At one time, there was talk about the "push and pull technique" with the "pull" factors including, for example, the broadcasting of meterological information on short-wave radio channels when conditions were suitable for departure, and the "push" factors including campaigns launched after the country's reunification and alleging bloodbaths in Viet Nam. A second wave had been made up of so-called economic refugees who were looking for better living conditions, and who were now referred to as "non-refugees".
One further "push" factor was that, unlike those who left overland and who had gone through lengthy screening procedures before being granted refugee status, the people who had chosen to go by sea were more readily accepted as refugees. That explained the size of the movement of "boat people".
74. Once saturation point had been reached, the flood of arrivals of non-refugees had had to be stemmed and measures found to guarantee their reintegration into their country of origin. Some European Community countries had been the first to put forward the idea of providing financial assistance to that end. Furthermore, under the agreement between Viet Nam, Hong Kong and the United Kingdom, the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees had the right to monitor repatriation to ensure that those concerned were not persecuted and to provide assistance in the implementation of development projects and humanitarian aid for them. In addition to the major financial contribution made by the European Community, some non-governmental and intergovernmental organizations had also contributed to projects of that nature.
75. To begin with, Viet Nam had entered only one reservation: the refusal of forced repatriation. Subsequently it had been agreed that repatriation would be carried out in the framework of the CPA, while respecting three principles: that it be carried out in dignity, that there be no constraint and that international assistance might be requested. Viet Nam agreed to voluntary repatriation and the return of those who had no objection to being repatriated. At present it was involved in finding solutions to residual cases posing problems of settlement, determining refugee status and repatriation. At the meeting held in Ho Chi Minh City it had been decided that in 1994 procedures for establishing refugee status would end and that the rate of repatriation of Vietnamese non-refugees from East and South East Asia would be increased, still in accordance with the agreed principles of dignity, safety and international assistance. Although foreign aid had been provided for 1993, no guarantees had thus far been given for 1994, as the international community was receiving appeals from all quarters.
76. The CHAIRMAN, after thanking Mr. Nguyen Luong for the extremely useful information provided, invited the delegation of Viet Nam to take part in the continuation of the consideration of the fifth periodic report of Viet Nam (CERD/C/204/Add.1) on Monday, 10 August, at 4.30 p.m.
77. The delegation of Viet Nam withdrew.